Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. What size Lionel transformer do I need? I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. Model train power falls into one of three categories. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. Price Received. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. Come join the discussion about brands, various scales, repairs, storage, displays, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. Our community is FREE to join. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. Amperes = VA/Secondary Volts or 40VA/28V = 1.43 amperes. Its a good transformer. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. I would check yoour connections and wire size, just to be safe. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. These can all have uses for your layout. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? We're sorry. The multi-conductor wire is also available. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. That means there are lots of them. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. White and black are common selections. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. This is why my wife loves me so. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. It is 5" long. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Just not quite as much. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). Price Received. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Its a bargain at that price. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. (10 lights X . Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. $2799. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? Sign-up for email today! Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. [:)]. And that means theyre affordable. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. What type is your old transformer? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. This will solve the slowdown problem. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. Ive talked about why here. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts, Model Train Track Grades and Maximum Grade Issues. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller Different wiring projects call for different standards. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Price Received. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. the amount of track is not what is important here. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). Classic Toy Trains magazine offers information about toy trains operating and collecting, toy train product news and reviews, toy train layout tips, toy train layout designs and track plans, and more. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer.

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